Nobody in this world considers the body to be the person, whether theist or atheist. An atheist may say, “Nobody can prove it and I don’t believe your scriptures, I am an out-and-out atheist, the body is the person, where is atma? I could not see.” But even the atheist who does not admit the evidence of the scriptures, if they are a rational being, they should accept reasoning. Does any person consider the dead body to be a person, anywhere in the world? As long as the consciousness exits in the body, thinking, feeling and willing exits, so long he is considered a person. But when that consciousness leaves the body, then that body is not considered to be a person.

If dead body is burnt in the cremation ground, as social system there in India, or is buried or is devoured by other birds and animals, nowhere in the world will you find that anyone will be prosecuted. If a dead body is burnt or buried, nobody is prosecuted. Now, you find everywhere government comes with the campaign of vote, vote, vote. You can keep the dead body intact by chemical procedure, but that dead body will not be considered as a person by the government, by the booth, that they will take the vote. But if a serious, bed-ridden patient (his life is there) is brought on stretcher, they will allow him to cast the vote. As long as life is there, you can cast vote.

Actually nobody on earth is accepting this body as a person. They may argue, but they will not accept. When consciousness will leave, this body has got no value. If I ask anybody here, do you want to die, then what will be your reply? You will reply, “No Swamiji, I do not want to die.” But you will die. You have got birth; you will remain for some time and you will die. No living being can remain here permanently. All are mortals. Why you do not want to die? If I am not eternally existing principle, if I am non-eternal then I cannot have the desire to remain in this world eternally. Will it be rational? My real self exists eternally, so I want to live in this world eternally. But we are enveloped by the illusory energy of the Supreme Lord consisting of three primal qualities; sattva, rajo and tamo. By rajo-guna living beings are created, by sattva-guna they are sustained, and by tamo-guna they are destroyed. Being enveloped by these I think I am born and after birth I remain for some time, and I shall die. He is afraid of death. But actually his desire is that I shall live in this world eternally. His real self is the eternally existing principle. Otherwise, devoid of existence, non-eternal entity cannot have that desire to live in this world eternally.

Every sentient being, at least human beings have the desire to inquire or to know or have the inquisitiveness. The desire is there because he is knowledge principle. If you are devoid of knowledge principle then you cannot have the desire to know. If you are devoid of happiness then you cannot have the desire for happiness. So, the self is eternally existing knowledge and blissful principle, and that is called ‘atma’. It is said in Gita.

You go through Gita but you do not believe in Gita. What is the use of going through Gita? Krishna says,

na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (Srimad Bhagavad Gita 2.20)

“There is no birth or death to the atma (soul). It is not that he has come into being at certain time in the past and he will exist for certain time in future. It is eternally existing principle for whom there is no birth and death. No one or nothing can kill him. He has got no relation with this mortal body.”

This body is perishable, but atma is not perishable. Ātmā requires ātmā. Ātmā is draṣṭavyaḥ śrotavyo mantavyo nididhyāsitavyaḥ—one should see everything in the soul’s perspective, should hear about him, should consider everything in his context and should get the full knowledge of him. ‘Life perceives life’, Greek Aristotle said. This body is composed of five elements earth, water, fire, air and sky. This body requires the transformations of those five elements like food, etc for its maintenance. When the body will die it will go to the five elements—pañcatvam gataḥ, sky will go to sky, air will go to air, like that. Everything will go to the elements, pañcatvam gataḥ. Like that, atma is aṇu sac-cid-ānanda, it will be sustained by sac-cid-ānanda. And it will go to sac-cid-ānanda. It is written in Taittiriya Upanishad,

yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante
yena jātāni jīvanti
yat prayanty abhisaṁ viśanti
tad vijijñāsasva tad brahma

One should know about that Brahma from where everything has emanated and after annihilation everything will enter into Him only.

By ‘Brahma’ we generally think, ‘the formless’, ‘the impersonal’. Krishna has said in the Gita, brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham—‘I am the cause of the formless impersonal brahma, Param-brahma’. If the cause has got no form then where from all these forms have come? Nothing cannot be the cause of something. If the ultimate cause is formless, where from all the forms have come? Ultimate cause has got form, but not like this material form. So, it is said in the scriptures ‘nirākāra’, but again it is said ‘sākāra’, both you have to take. ‘Nirākāra’ is in the sense He has got no material form, but He has got transcendental spiritual form. If the cause has got no form, we cannot see forms here, where you can get form? Form cannot be produced by formless.

Once I had been to North-east, Assam and there was a big meeting. Some dignitaries of the city were present there. There were president, chief guest, etc. The Chief Guest was a professor. He spoke in detail. He said, “Ultimate Reality is formless, He has got no personal form, no potency or attributes. If there be form, attribute, then He will become finite, matter. But we as conditioned souls of this world cannot meditate or think about formless, impersonal Brahma without qualities so that formless impersonal Brahma, by accepting sattva-guna, He has become ‘Ishwar’ (He takes up a form). Whether Krishna, Rama, Nrasimha, or Kali, Durga, whatever we may say, we have to concentrate there. Ultimately there will be no Durga, no Kali, no Ganapati, no Krishna, no Rama, all will merge in the formless.” Then I was requested to give vote of thanks. (Laughter) Then I said, “Thank you. I am grateful to hear good, very learned lecture, speech of the respectable chief guest but I have got one very insignificant question to you. You said Ultimate Reality has got no form, no attributes, no potency, nothing. Then how can He become ‘Ishwar’? How can He accept a form by accepting sattva-guna because He is impotent? He has got no potency so He can do nothing. How you say that impersonal, formless, quality-less, attribute-less, potency-less, impotent can become ‘Ishwar’ by accepting sattva-guna? He can do nothing. In this world also, will you go to a person who has got no qualification, who can do nothing? You say, “Supreme Lord is nothing? He is cipher. He has got no form, no potency, no attribute, nothing.” What is this? How from nothing, something can come? Therefore this is not the fact.

Once I had been to Sahranpur. I was taken there to a woman’s place who was very rich. I met her. She wanted to hear about Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s teachings and I spoke about the ‘acintya bhedābheda’ siddhānta, inconceivable simultaneous distinction and non-distinction. She was pursuing and sometimes she was smiling. After one hour she said, “This ‘bheda’ (distinction) is not good, there cannot be any kind of bheda. If there is bheda, that is māyā. Brahma satya, jagat mithya—only Brahma is the fact and the rest of the whole world is false. Now, out of ignorance we are thinking we are human beings. When we get the knowledge, we shall merge in the Brahman. Soham soham, ahaṁ brahmāsmi—I am that Brahma”

And then I tried to explain the matter. But whenever I tried to explain, every time, she said, “Oh okay it is not of much importance, it is the only process. This bhakti-yoga is just a process, it is lower.”

Then I said, “All right. You are saying the whole world is false. Are you in the world or outside world? If you are in the world, you are also false. Whatever you are saying is also false.”